Why are advertising social networks so dysfunctional?
1. Why do the vast majority of the people in these networks end up as lurkers? Most of the people in our network do not actively or consistently participate.
2. Why don’t these networks attract more people from our business? Social networks attract just a minuscule fraction of the entire population of the people working in our industry.
3. Why do only a few people out of the total population have anything to say? We are in the communication business, why don’t we know how to communicate with each other?
4. Why do only a few people out of the total population actively post or comment on other people’s posts or profiles? There are thousands of members, but only a few posts with a few comments.
5. Why do only a few people out of the total population make friends or network in a social network of their peers?
6. Why do only a few people out of the total population stay, while most just stop by for a while, then move on, or rarely check in from time to time?
7. Real life operates one way, and virtual life operates another, why is that? For example, in real life when you say hi to someone, or welcome someone, or make the first move to speak with someone, they will usually respond to you. Not true here. People will often avoid contact in a social network after they have been approached. So why do they come to a social network in the first place?
8. Are most of the people in our business really that boring, or have nothing to say?
9. Are most of the people in our business really that shy or rude?
10. Are most of the people in our business really that unfriendly towards each other, envious of each other, intimidated by each other, not care about each other, or are afraid of each other?
11. Are most of the people in our business really that fucked up?
(Help me out here folks, please. I can’t figure this out??????????)
2. Why don’t these networks attract more people from our business? Social networks attract just a minuscule fraction of the entire population of the people working in our industry.
3. Why do only a few people out of the total population have anything to say? We are in the communication business, why don’t we know how to communicate with each other?
4. Why do only a few people out of the total population actively post or comment on other people’s posts or profiles? There are thousands of members, but only a few posts with a few comments.
5. Why do only a few people out of the total population make friends or network in a social network of their peers?
6. Why do only a few people out of the total population stay, while most just stop by for a while, then move on, or rarely check in from time to time?
7. Real life operates one way, and virtual life operates another, why is that? For example, in real life when you say hi to someone, or welcome someone, or make the first move to speak with someone, they will usually respond to you. Not true here. People will often avoid contact in a social network after they have been approached. So why do they come to a social network in the first place?
8. Are most of the people in our business really that boring, or have nothing to say?
9. Are most of the people in our business really that shy or rude?
10. Are most of the people in our business really that unfriendly towards each other, envious of each other, intimidated by each other, not care about each other, or are afraid of each other?
11. Are most of the people in our business really that fucked up?
(Help me out here folks, please. I can’t figure this out??????????)
Tags: adgabber, advertising, dysfunctional-social-networks
Views: 12
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Loftus on
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i am impressed by all we ( you ) have to say. we are a collective with opinion. peoples in need of socialization. peoples who listen, may not respond, but consider ourselves part of something bigger. for all the criticism of those that fail to become. i am one. the chatter lulls me. i sleep better knowing you are there. you will not share enlightenment, but you will share a uniform. it is our team. expect nothing.
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Permalink Reply by santa on -
I think you make alot of good points. I question my choices on the Internet everyday. As Santa on the Internet my course is too make a young persons interaction with the internet be for all the right reasons on thier parents lap, not discovering the internet for all the wrong reasone later on, however I would like to focus so the bi-product is financial freedom also.
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Permalink Reply by Buddy 'Friendly' Wachenheimer on
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Santa Claus is coming......into some cash. Spend it wisely, pal.
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Permalink Reply by J.S. Gilbert on -
I find it amazing that this topic still is cranking along. I have the pleasure of working with Bill Tancer next week. I will be directing him as he reads his book for an audio book. I knew that I had heard him speak before, but I thought I would go online and get a better sense for the man. The manuscript for his book arrived shortly thereafter and it is quite fascinating.
Here is a little piece I pulled from the web regarding this topic and Tancers research on internet engagement
Tancer works for Hitwise and he was a speaker at Web 2.0 from which this originally comes. Also quoted is Dave Sifry. Dave Sifry is an American software entrepreneur and blogosphere icon.
Participants vs. consumers: The 1-9-90 rule
The most fascinating numbers to come out of the conference came when Tancer and Sifry said it was time to cast aside the 80-20 rule in favor of a new paradigm. The 80-20 rule states -- well, let Wikipedia tell it: "for many phenomena, 80% of the consequences stem from 20% of the causes." Or, in practical Web 2.0 terms: eight out of 10 visitors to a Website will be passive consumers, while 20 percent are generally hands-on creators and producers.
Said Tancer: "It's not the 80-20 rule anymore. It's 1-9-90." Spread across the Web, generally 1 percent of visitors are creators and producers, 9 percent are "highly involved participators" (don't ask me why the word "participants" isn't good enough), and 90 percent are consumers or viewers.
This played out in a Hitwise study of visits to three popular sites:
At YouTube, only 0.16% of visits were related to uploading a video during the course of the study. At Flickr, only 0.2% of visits were related to uploading photos. The percentage was markedly higher at Wikipedia, where 4.59% of visits were related to editing articles on the site.
And while the popular perception is that this is a youth-driven phenomenon, not so. Younger people were doing most of the viewing and older people were doing most of the creating. At Wikipedia, it broke down like this:
• 4.6% of 18- to 24-year-olds edit the site;
• 13.5% of ages 25-34;
• 27.3% of ages 35-44;
• 54.6%, age 45 plus (combined the last 2 categories because they were up so briefly)
A similar trend emerges at YouTube:
• A shockingly low 1.9% of 18- to 24-year-olds upload videos to the video sharing site, compared with 24.1% of ages 25-34 and 35.6% of ages 35-44 (again, don't have the full stats).
The 25- to 55-year-old age groups do the heavy lifting.
When it comes to viewers on YouTube, it breaks down 51% male vs. 49% female among viewers, but 60% male to 40% female among participants. The gender gap is even more pronounced at Wikipedia: 52% male vs. 48% female among readers, but 76% male vs. 24% female among participants who dive in and edit the site. (The strong-willed women readers/participants of the Social Media blog are exceptions to this general rule, of course.)
More Sifry: 37% of all the 72 million blogs that Technorati tracks are in japanese; 33% are in English. A fast-growing segment: Farsi (at 1%), the language of bloggers in Iran. More than 237 million items have been tagged by the creators. About 37% of users are using tags, or keywords. More than 125,000 posts appear each day.
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Thanks JS, very interesting and not a surprise. My own experience of having been quite active on the net since 1995, would tend to agree with these numbers.
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Permalink Reply by martin Leach on
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1. I was a lurker, but now I'm becoming proactive. I think I was so used to myspace and how narcissistic it was that I signed up for adgabber, added a couple friends, noticed that no one paid that much attention to me and stopped visiting the site. That was about a year ago. Now I realize that to make this site work, for me and for others, I have to have a different view of this site than that of other social networks. I am now a willing participant in a meaningful universe.
2. I'm not sure why these don't attract more people in the business. I have barely entered the business, but when I first heard of adgabbers in The Week magazine I thought it was such a cool idea. Why not have a social network with people you do business with? It makes complete sense. If I was a truck driver I would want to be a member of a truck driving social network. I guess we have to make it work. There is an artist network called deviantart.com that has a huge member base and is working beautifully.
3. Most people really don't have much to say. Coming up with discussion topics and replying to posts also burns massive amounts of calories. We didn't become the most well-fed nation overnight and most people are not willing to slim down their well fed status by over-engaging in abstract thought. I think also that people are reluctant to communicate on the web because it feels fake. There is a degree of superficiality that goes with many forums and posts. We can't see body-language, we can't hear tone inflections, we can't make eye contact. This is a very unnatural way for most people to communicate. Also, most break-ups, divorces, law suits and wars are the result of failed attempts at communication. Most people believe if it aint broke then don't try and fix it.
4. Does my profile picture demonstrate that I believe in the mantra 'Better Living Through Chemistry'? Do my long winded answers clearly show that caffeine facilitates my ability to write as much as a pair of hands would facilitate a lepers'? Was that last comment about lepers insensitive and grotesque? Probably, but check out this haiku I read online the other day.
So you have no hands?
Neither do digital clocks.
No money for you.
Anyways, my answer for number four is basically my answer to number three; plus the haiku.
5. Why indeed? Probably because their tangible social networks are more important and meaningful to them. We know better though. I'd like to state, in the words of Howard Hughes, that social networks for the ad community are "The way of the future. It's the way of the future. It's the way of the future. It's the way of the future. It's the way of the future. It's the way of the future. It's the way of the future. It's the way of the future. It's the way of the future."
6. They are too busy and need to read your (Buddy Friendly) minimalist essay on the differences between being "Busy" and being "Productive."
7. I disagree with you here a little bit. It's true that if you engage most people they will politely say "Hello" or "Good Morning," but generally they prefer not to take the conversation any further. This is a social construct that most people accept because its been hardwired into our brains since children as socially acceptable behavior. In the virtual world we can dispense with these annoying social constructs that many people find repetitive and mundane. A simple "Hello" in the real world can lead to an actual conversation that 1. one might not want to take part in. 2. one might feel guilty for declining to take part in. 3. might be the beginning of some sales pitch, a quick survey so that the environment might be saved, or a humiliating gesture of need in which your are disgusted with the person for even asking for your assistance and disgusted with yourself for not having the empathy or time to help out another human being.
8. Again, I don't really know anybody in our business yet, but the majority of the population probably are that boring. From my life's experiences, the people that I actually connect with on some important level are few and far between. Many people have a few interesting things to say, but then run dry like my flask on prom night. The following is Ambrose Bierce's definition of the word idiot, which still holds true to this day and is also a great answer to number eight. IDIOT, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant and controlling. The Idiot's activity is not confined to any special field of thought or action, but "pervades and regulates the whole." He has the last word in everything; his decision is unappealable. He sets the fashions and opinion of taste, dictates the limitations of speech and circumscribes conduct with a dead-line.
9. I think most people are shy. We must coax them out with warm words, food, candy, alcohol and illegal substances. Whatever it takes to get Pointdexter's back up off the wall.
10. Again, I'm waiting to find out. I'm hoping the answer is a solid NO, but it has to be more complicated than that.
11. So, I've stated before that I don't know most people in our business yet. However, I have been bartending in metropolitan Miami for the last six years and have observed that all people, from all walks of life are DEFINITELY that fucked up. Alcohol is a scary truth serum and sometimes it only takes a few drinks for a person's entire twisted reality to come screaming to the surface of their conscience. This usually results in the person's inebriated acquaintances to say how they really feel as well, and suddenly the perfect couple, or the down to earth circle of friends, or the casual relationship turns into a fiery maelstrom of discord as people fire the raw truth back and forth at each other. We're all, in some way, twisted like licorice. But hey, may he who is without sin cast the first stone. Speaking of casting stones, I recommend everyone go read The Lottery, by Shirley Jackson, and thank god Sarah Palin isn't our president. Oh, and if you have a minute after that, please comment on my West Side Story post and the poster I made. Looking for feedback folks.
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Great insights Martin. You get it. I wish more did.
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Permalink Reply by Diana Oyaga on -
I agree with martin. I think its a great opportunity for all of us in the business to have this place to share and learn from each other ... Though I get that some people probably read and just don't say anything or have few ideas on what kind of forum to start. I for instance have opened just a few which haven't had much apeal. But anyway I think its great if at least we start participating, adgabber has done a lot for me, we just need more people to really get into it and realize that also.
regarding point 7, you just made me think we could make a status thing on adgabber, kind of like our status in facebook or on twitter, that could get us more involved with each other.
martin, and on point 11, I think its great that you've been bartending. For us advertisers its very important to be out near the consumers on regular situations. That way you can really get to know how they act, their needs and how to reach them. I think you just made me consider a part time job in bartending. Though I hate dealing with drunk people (except for myself of course)
I`ll check out your post.
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Permalink Reply by J.S. Gilbert on
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As perhaps a footnote to this thread, I should say that I have conducted business with several individuals and businesses as a direct result of meeting and getting to know them on AdGabber. I have also referred individuals and businesses to people who I have "met" here.
I have also discovered some very specific products and services through AdGabber I may not have known about otherwise.
This contrasts markedly with my experiences of LinkedIn and FAcebook. LinkedIn seems to be a great tool for database management; keeping track of busy people who switch jobs frequently, but the overall networking aspects of it seem slow and limited. In advertising, by the time I get a "friend" to let one theri "friends" know I may be interested in linking up or working together, I could be past deadline.
As for Facebook, if I were into board games it might prove useful. It seems to be some sort of cyber stash for putting people you don't know what to do with in.
Of course it could just be what I'm comfortable with and AdGabber does seem to offer enough diversification, while still maintaining enough focus to make my semi-regular visits worthwhile.
I have found however that work ocmmitments have been crazy enough to the point where my overall visits to social networks and web browsing in general is down by about 80%.
No doubt during December which will be slower and also not offer pleasant weather to be outside, I expect my participation to increase as I do others.
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JS, how could networking for dollars (besides getting to know people) on an advertising social network such as Adgabber be enhanced for the benefit of all?
How could people with specific products and services market them on an advertising social network such as Adgabber to maximize the exposure and rate of a favorable return?
What other ways are there to achieve results?
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Permalink Reply by J.S. Gilbert on
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Buddy,
There's two distinct approaches to this: You can ask a woman to dance and you can ask a woman to sleep with you. For many men, the reason for asking for the dance is simply the prelude to sleeping with her. IN both cases, depending upon who's doing the asking and how they ask, there may be many yesses or nos, however the former, asking a woman to dance tends to be for most the safe bet. In quite a few cases, you'll get a yes which simply ends with the dance. It might also lead to the broadening of a soical circle, getting to know someone, developing trust, learning new things, experinceing new things or making a determination that this is a person you simply never want future contact with.
Unfortunately I see far too many people jumping into social networks siply going for the close. Hit and run artists, playing the numbers and not bothering to even work with the basic tenants of marketing and advertising - AIDA, Attention, Interest, Desire and Action.
Reading posts and blogs, seeing who people have as friends or clients, looking at examples of work that people have done, hearing about problems or listening to people offer solutions - this is all part of the dance.
Products or service to offer? Learn about who I am as much as possible. Offer services or products to me as they may address problems I may have or make my life better. Offer trial periods or free samples. Show me the benefits to me or my clients or both.
In some cases, offer finders fees or other incentives for me to promote your products or services. Make sure what you have is unique and the vlaue is appropriate. DOn't offer me a $250,000 per year contract for web analytics because it is beyond my scope and isn't of interest to me.
Push product or services to me that you potentially see me as weanting to pull.
Show us you're human. Talkl about your pet dog or cat or what your favorite food is or what you liked studying in college so that we can develop a raport. Let's not make it 100% business 24/7.
Bring people you know in the real world into ADGabber or other social media. There are a bunch of people that inhabit AdGabber at least occasionally that got here through my recommendation. In fact, for a variety of reasons I currently do not have a personal web site, although a simple Google of my name brings up about 500 sites that reference me or my work. I actually use my AdGabber personal site as my personal website. I think that by coming here people can get a great deal of insight into who I am and what I do and also embrace this community if they so desire.
For all of you 12 steppers out there, you should be familiar with attraction vs. promotion. There are times to promote and times to attract. AdGabber seems to me to be a great place to simply participate and by doing so, open yourself up to a number of opportunities.
I hope this has somewhat answered your question.
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