Mehri's Charges of Racism in Ad Biz (Discussed on The BeanCast)

Bill Green poses some really good points for discussion on this topic over at Make the Logo Bigger.

He was on my show, The BeanCast, last night to discuss, and the conversation offered some great perspective. Admittedly, none of us who were on the show are minorities, (Hal Goodtree, Duane Forrester and Bill and me) but even so we came to a consensus that racism does indeed exist. It may be passive most of the time, but it's there.

Bill was actually at the initial open meeting that Mehri had and he says it was "eye-opening" to hear about the patterns of discrimination.

What are your thoughts? I know it's uncomfortable and has been discussed to death, but I'm wondering if any of your positions are changing as we live with the subject.

Bob

Tags: beancast, cyrus+mehri, discrimination, marketing+podcast, mehri, racism, the+beancast

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Permalink Reply by philip chudy on April 15, 2009 at 1:51am

Lets face it TJ - if a person or people are highly disposed to being racist (and what are we really talking about when we use that term anyway) then anybody doing anything at all - no matter how trivial - is going to precipitate racist or quasi racist reactions.

By the way - I dont think that those pirate gangsters take the slightest interest in the race of the people they want to exploit. I think they have a lot of other problems which are nothing to do with race and or the USA.

All the same - - these poor poor sensitive little racist darlings the world over. They will be so upset at the way the world is going - they may even cry.

I would rather seek to support people who are capable of doing something about the problem rather than spend my time worrying about those whose main propensity is to whine a lot.

Oh and by the way, when it comes to generalizing about the continent -Africa is approx 3.5x the size of the US

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Permalink Reply by TJ on April 15, 2009 at 2:39am

You're missing my point Philip....but somehow you think the things that are currently going on in Africa are ...trivial?

You don't see how they directly mold WORLD OPINION?

And how that World Opinion indirectly (and wrongly) molds domestic opinion? Go read some of the blogs where 20-somethings hang out at and let fly with their unfiltered thoughts....You'd be shocked at the levels of cynicism, disharmony and apathy you'd find there.

Oh and by the way...I've been ALL OVER the world from Mogadishu to The Arctic Circle. Fly Navy, baby!

That being said I stand by my original statement that World-related racism and its ugly domestic step-sisters will always be with us until the continent of Africa (as a whole) does something monumental for itself and the world view.

Somalia Pirates taking hostages and attacking ships is just throwing more racial wood on an already intense world fire.

Watch what happens if/when the USA retaliates with extreme prejudice...within our own borders.

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Permalink Reply by philip chudy on April 15, 2009 at 2:52pm

So tell us TJ - what do 'you' mean when you talk about racism?

I dont mean to put you personally on the spot, since I don't think most of us have much more than a vague idea of what the word means - even though we all use it with abandon.

What does it look like, feel like, what does it do, who does it, who does it profit, who does it hurt, what causes it, is it natural, is it a disease, why does it occur, is it a cause, is it a symptom?

and the question I always ask - is it anything truly to do with race at all?

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Permalink Reply by philip chudy on April 18, 2009 at 6:29pm

Blacks lead fight against ‘unfit’ ANC

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6122362.ece

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Permalink Reply by tobin on April 27, 2009 at 10:35pm

And why can't we see that Africa is going through the turmoil of un-doing boundaries set by the Euro Empires--boundaries that had/have nothing to do with tribes and their territories?

Seems that happened somewhere else but they solved it by killing most of the natives and demoralizing the rest.

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Permalink Reply by tobin on April 20, 2009 at 8:09pm

"Admittedly, none of us who were on the show are minorities, (Hal Goodtree, Duane Forrester and Bill and me) but even so we came to a consensus that racism does indeed exist. It may be passive most of the time, but it's there."

So even a bunch of whites guys recognize that racism exists. However, you think it's passive most the time?

Passive racism is when you label someone by their race but do not treat them any differently as a result of that label.

In the advertising business you must look at product and producers. The product we can skip for now because there are volumes that can be written on the implicit and explicit racist content in ads.

But the ad business has to work harder at cultivating Black and Hispanic mainstream advertising executives. And providing a culture in which minorities (including women) don't have to mimic white guys in suits to make it--a culture open to enrichment.

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Permalink Reply by Harry Webber on April 20, 2009 at 8:55pm

Tobin,

"Passive racism is when you label someone by their race but do not treat them any differently as a result of that label." So would that mean these "passive racists" would hire blacks as they would any body else, but just refer to them as "that black guy we just hired in accounting", "that third black guy we hired in accounting", that 19th Hispanic Art Director we hire last week or that really diverse work force we have in the New York Office."

Or maybe these passive racists are more like the ones that say stuff like, "that black writer whatshisname really nailed the strategy. The client was very impressed. I think we should make him an ACD. And that Chinese art director he's been working with too. Promote them both. And give them a raise, to boot."

Advertising people are shallow and myopic for the most part. They have a very narrow comfort zone. Clones of themselves. This isn't passive or aggressive. This is just stupid. Like most of their work product. And a radio show with no minority representation about Racism? Was that more passive racism? It doesn't matter if the panel reflects the makeup of the industry. How else can we determine if there is racism here? Any racism? No not the bad kind. Maybe its the new and improved kind of racism. The benign kind: Passive Racism. That sounds much better. Here, lets define the difference for everybody. Now. Don't we all feel better? Of course we do.I don't think a black guy could have come up with "Passive Racism. They are all entirely too...aggressive, for some strange reason. You know the kind."

These guys couldn't think to go to the membership page and find a few minorities to invite. Or did they think they could speak for the minorities nobody had enough interest to invite. (Insert Old time Ad Slogan here: "We couldn't find any")

Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury. Is there racism on Madison Avenue? We the Jury find that there is only Passive Racism on Madison Avenue. Not the kind that prevents hiring and promotion based on merit. Even Nancy Hill of the 4A's testified, "The Numbers speak for themselves." Just take a look around. I rest my case.

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Permalink Reply by tobin on April 27, 2009 at 10:29pm

If we define and label each other by race, that in itself is racism.

It can be passive (as in not inclusive or exclusive) in a culture where members of all races are treated equally.

And yes, there is a bit of racism on Madison Ave
Perhaps it has something to do with all those f*cking white guys in suits.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Knorpp on May 27, 2009 at 5:05pm

Let's not take the comment out of context, friends. "Passive" is not meant to mean anything other than there's probably not a guy at the top saying, "Let's keep the blacks outta here." There is instead what Harry describes, which is probably even worse because it's easier to deny and easier to hide behind.

The word "passive" was not meant to mean that somehow it's "better" and my apologies if it came off that way. There is no doubt in my mind of the racism within our industry and the repeated way that people of color are discounted and short-changed within the system.

Bob

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Permalink Reply by Buddy 'Friendly' Wachenheimer on May 25, 2009 at 7:32am

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Permalink Reply by philip chudy on May 25, 2009 at 8:16am

Yuh, one day I too will get around to think a maudlin thought or two about something or other, and pout a bit - and all that will make me free - and the government wont be able to own my ass any more. Yay!